Tom Sanglier is a CAE, author, former EY partner, IIA Global Board Member, and U.S. military veteran with a non-traditional approach to staffing his team. Tom is a longtime inspiration, so I was thrilled to have him lead an Internal Audit Collective webinar sharing how his team benefits from its unconventional approach. 

THE BIG QUESTION: How Can CAEs Innovate Their Talent Strategies? 

Compensation, benefits, incentives (e.g., flexibility, recognition), skills/tech training, mentoring/coaching, and other forward-looking talent management strategies can help. But many CAEs need to fill seats ASAP, or seek specialized skill sets to support their strategy and plan. Those skill sets — especially in in-demand areas like cybersecurity, AI, data analytics, and critical thinking — can be hard to come by. What else can CAEs do to develop a more robust talent pipeline? 

THE BIG TAKEAWAY: CAEs are under pressure to build Internal Audit teams that can handle today’s challenges — and adapt to whatever challenges the future brings. That requires sourcing skills, experience, and knowledge that fall outside traditional auditor competencies. 

THE MISSION: Finding New Paths to Old Objectives

Most CAEs are familiar with talent management objectives. Many of you are probably reporting (and accountable for) metrics in these areas. 

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As Tom outlined, CAEs are tasked to:

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• Increase team member satisfaction
• Create a robust pipeline
• Upskill the team
• Enable rotation to/from the organization
• Reduce recruiting time/cost
• Increase team knowledge
• Reduce turnover
• Make customers happy

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It’s no short order. But as Tom pointed out, these objectives are interrelated: If you push on one, you’re likely to see results in others.  

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Tom’s nontraditional approach — an auditor rotation program known internally as SWAP — checks all the boxes. 

THE FRAMEWORK: A Cross-Pollinating Rotation Program

How does SWAP work? The idea is simple: In six- or nine-month rotations, a member of Tom’s team switches places with someone in a different function. They do each other’s jobs. 

SWAP has been a resounding success in Tom’s organization. Auditors gain deep cross-functional business and process knowledge and relationships, while professionals from other departments get a better understanding of auditing processes/controls and greater exposure to the overall organization.

Step 1: Sketch Out Your Program

How will your program work? 

For example, Tom uses like-for-like swaps, such that both professionals have similar years of experience. His 22-member team doesn’t swap more than 3 or 4 people simultaneously. 

While most SWAPS run 6 months, they’ll occasionally create modified arrangements (e.g., 40-hour shadowing commitment over 2 months).

In all cases, there are clear expectations around onboarding, supervision, partnering with and shadowing other team members, reviews, and avoiding conflicts of interest. 

Step 2: Get Leadership Buy-In

Obviously, people need permission to leave their roles for any period of time. Leadership must be onboard. 

Do a roadshow or arrange one-on-ones to market the program’s benefits. The core message: “You get to keep them, but they’ll come back better.”

Step 3: Enlist Volunteers 

As Tom acknowledged, “It’s very hard to swap VPs and directors and so on, because they’re so fundamental to what’s going on.” 

Tom gets more traction from engaging staff and seniors. He explained, “It’s easier to swap someone who hasn’t yet developed the fundamental fastball that they’re critical at. They’re still early in their careers — an easy time for them to rotate and learn new things.” 

Tom also advised: Don’t ask anyone to swap their top-performing team members. It’s too big an ask. They just require that candidates “met expectations” on their last performance review.

Step 4: Vetting

Make sure it’s going to work for everyone. 

Tom uses bidirectional interviews: His team interviews the candidate, while the candidate interviews them. Everyone has the opportunity to ask questions and get to know who they’d be working with — and stop the process if they don’t think it’s a fit.

For key roles, they also hold customer interviews.

Step 5: Contracting

Develop/vet a formal rotation contract with HR and legal. 

Tailor individual contracts with key details, including expectations, rotation duration, supervisor(s), and other key details. Have both parties sign. 

Step 6: Onboarding

Develop/conduct a formal onboarding program.

Tom’s onboarding program is a proven accelerator. It includes initial instruction, a shadowing period, and assignment of a “buddy” for the duration. 

But as Tom stated, “It takes a village.” The whole team helps ensure rotations succeed.  

Step 7: Rotation

Remember those talent management objectives (e.g., retention, development, increased knowledge/satisfaction)? The rotation is where the magic happens.

One of Tom’s auditors is currently on a SWAP with someone in inventory. They’re sleeves-rolled-up doing inventory, working with GL software, and getting a deep dive on the organization’s inventory systems — something they’d never get through any number of audits.

Meanwhile, the inventory person brings her deep inventory systems knowledge to advise Internal Audit. While she can’t audit inventory, she provides tremendous value. 

She’s also learning about audit processes, deepening her understanding of controls, and getting opportunities she otherwise wouldn’t: presenting to management and getting exposed to other parts of the organization. 

Said Tom, “Sometimes we forget how blessed we are in Internal Audit. We get to see so much, and interact with so many different people. Whereas functions are often very siloed in their view of the organization and who they interact with.”

When the swap ends, both professionals return to their roles with the knowledge, skills, context, and networks they’ve gained. 

Step 8: Post-Rotation Debriefs

Learn from everyone’s experience. 

Tom’s team asks all participants: What could we have done better? 

Step 9: Cooling-Off Period

Establish/observe protocols to avoid independence issues. Needs will vary based on your team size, industry, compliance posture, and other considerations.

In Tom’s program, swapees observe a one-year cooling off period (e.g., the auditor who worked in inventory won’t work on inventory audits the following year). 

WHY THIS WORKS: Auditing Can Be Taught

If you insist on all auditors having audit experience, you’re casting too narrow a net. Auditing can be taught; what really matters are competencies. 

When Tom’s team needs to fill vacancies, they don’t ask for audit experience. They boil the job down to relevant competencies and start there. Beyond that, Tom looks for integrity.

SWAP has helped Tom build out an exceptional 22-member Internal Audit team — of which more than one-third (8) are non-traditional auditors. Seven came directly from the business. 

Yes — sometimes, Tom’s “rotations” have ended up sticking for the long-term. 

THE LAST WORD: Reimagine Who an Auditor Can Be

Rotations are a powerful tool for increasing engagement and reducing burnout, turnover, and recruiting time/costs. Everyone gains knowledge, skills, and relationships, increasing team/customer satisfaction. 

Tom affirmed, “I am nothing without my team, and I need a high-performing team. So it’s worth my time and effort to focus on all of these things.” SWAP, combined with a focus on competencies over audit experience, has resulted in more applications — and more options.

Learn from Tom. Consider rotation. And at minimum, absorb the underlying lesson: A great auditor can come from anywhere, provided they bring relevant competencies. 

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